tv MSNBC News Live MSNBC July 23, 2009 3:00pm-4:00pm EDT
sergeant crowley said this morning. >> i think it's disappointing that we weighted into what should be a local issue and something that plays out here as we himself said at the beginning of that press conference, he didn't know all the facts. he certainly doesn't based on those comments. >> when police showed up at the home of gates to investigate a call about a burglary and asked to see the professor's id. police say he refused at first and was charged of disorderly conduct. professor gates is demanding right now an apology for the arrest, is refusing saying, it will never happen. erica noonen is a reporter from "the boston globe" where i understand this is hot topic from the radio to the television
stations covering it. are people more upset at the president and his remarks or the hnd ling of this arrest? >> it's huge. i think we were looking at just coming to understand the local issues when president obama made his comments last night and it recharged everything. >> it's interesting because this is not the first time this police department has been accused of racism. last year, there was an investigation after a young black student and harvard felt he was discriminated again. >> boston is well-known for its racial conflicts. it captured people's imaginations because we have a very distinguished, renowned academic, a police officer who says he was doing his job and a
real fire, kind of a tinderbox of tensions. >> as far as those tensions, to be clear, professor gates was inside his home. the police officer essentially asked to come in, goes inside the home and then questions mr. gates as to who he is. is that the basic thrust of it? >> yes. a lot of things happened over the several minutes the sting unfolded. they were together in a couple of different places. on the front porch, inside, and outside the home. the officer reports having asked dr. gates to come outside because it was loud and chaotic in the home and that's not something dr. gates wanted to do. a lot of the back and forth in terms of, and the arrest was made outside the home. >> so the back and forth continues, but what happens now? again now, it's turned into this police officer and words exchanged, if you will, with the
president. you still have the professor wanting an apology. what's next? a lawsuit, this officer be taken of his job? >> i talked to the officer last night and he reiterated he has no intense of apologizing. i think president obama's comments not only raised the stakes, but also added some tension. even president obama admitted he didn't know all the facts and that upset people locally, why he would criticize without knowing everything. i think it's really up to dr. gates about how he wishes to take it forward if at all. >> thank you for joining us. now the bigger picture. there is growing anger of president obama's condemnation of the gates' arrest.
more than 1,000 people reacted on politico and most comments went like this. forgive me, but passing judgment without hearing all the facts is acting stupidly. there were a few comments that echoed the traditional viewpoint, quote, there should be no such thing as disorderly conduct in your own home. again, most criticism has been of president obama, not of professor gates. joining us is david wilson. david, on that point, the reaction does seem like the traditional democrat have been flip-flopped. >> what we're seeing on our site is a broad range of opinions about this.
we are an african-american site, so there's a lot of diversity of opinion. some are saying that president obama shouldn't have talked without having all the facts and some are seeing his stepping into this as sort of standing up for those who are sort of racially have some sort of racial injustice. >> that's interesting that you say even within the black community, there is a divide because there is an assumption that as african-americans, you might be able to identify what happened, but what's the divide, or how does that, that's intruging to a lot of people. >> we had some columnists who felt this is a battle of egos and not racial profiling. that's one extreme. the other is that this is sort of the classic racial profiling. >> so what david was saying
about the conservatives though, older, white males, are you seeing that audience give thoughts regarding this is his home and you can't go into someone's home without a warrant? >> you see that. you see people saying, look, if this happened, i would be upset. some say i'm a white american and if this happened to me, i would be irate. >> but the fact that more people are not sympathizing, that if you go to most conservative websites, there is huge outrage, not of a fact that gates was arrested inside his home, but at president obama for condemning it. is there a sense in the african-american community online that there's a double standard. that if this was a white man, they would be up in arms. >> absolutely.
i'm sure you guys seen how they're starting to run ads and really asking you know, if some of the local democrats actually think that you know, the cambridge police officers are stupid. they're taking advantage of this. >> trying to politicize it. >> some of that is expected. you expect them to take any opportunities they have to attack president obama, but i'm not sure if that's going to be a success. >> your website, imagine if george bush or another white president was still in office. this question wouldn't have been asked at a press conference, so having the first african-american president and this issue brought up a whole dynamic of this country we wouldn't have seen if this were george bush. >> you're right. i was really surprised watching that press conference last night that president obama went so deep into this issue. he we want detail by detail into
the incident and i was surprised about that. we don't know, but this would have probably brushed over if he hasn't mentioned it. but now, we have a full, a whole another cycle. >> and the irony is that if it had been a prominent white person who had been arrested and the president had decided not to comment, then they might have criticized president obama, how dare you not condemn this. david wilson -- thanks, david. and again, you know, tamron, i do think that we don't know exactly maybe what happened, but we do know that if people are presented with a set of circumstances, a random person arrested inside their home, most conservatives would say that's wrong and when you see them saying president obama's wrong,
you see the politics and the way it impacts the politics. >> and the national consciousal republican committee coming out with ads saying the president reacted slowly to iran, but quickly reacted to this. a massive corruption bust in new jersey has netted a total of 44 arrests. rabbis from new york and new jersey are charged with trafficking black market organs from donors in israel and laundering the sale of counterfeit gucci and prada bags. >> today's arrest highlight three separate criminal schemes, but all share themes of deceit, abuse of power and betrayal of trust. jersey's corruption problem is one of the worst if not the worst in the nation. >> the fbi says new jersey may
be the most corrupt sate in the nation. the governor says the scale is quote, simply outrageous and cannot be tolerated. coming up, we'll talk to a reporter and author. >> that's the other big story, health care. the bill will not be on the president's desk before congress heads out for their recess. here is why. according to harry reid, this is what he had to say. >> i think that it's better to have a product that is one based on quality, thoughtfulness. >> nancy pelosi is more optimistic. she says the house will be able to meet the president's august deadli deadline. >> going forward, we have a few issues that we are going to resolve. i believe in the next 48 hours
and we are on schedule to go forward with this. >> and republicans including john boehner will not support the bill as it stands right now and is urging democrats to include his side of the aisle in the conversation. >> i happen to be an optimist and i believe at the end of the day, if there's going to be a bill signed into law, it's going to have to be done with democrats and republicans working together in the best interest of the american people. >> last hour, president obama back on the road making the case for health care reform. he is holding a town hall meeting in shaker heights, ohio, the president giving his remarks a short time ago and opening it up for questions. a few minutes ago, he went after the republican party for creating the financial mess we're in right now. >> folks have a lot of nerve who helped us get into this fiscal
hole and then start going around trying to talk about fiscal responsibility. i'm always a little bit surprised that people don't have a little more shame. about having created a mess and then try to point fingers. >> well, mike viqueira's traveling with the president and joins us now. when you look at the polling out there, those americans in the polls are not receptive. >> reporter: and it's not going well in washington at all. we can now say that the goal posts have been moved. they have revised and extended their deadline. the president's been saying for weeks he wanted a vote on the house and senate floor before they went on vacation. it's clear that the is that the and the house are going to get that far. the president is at shaker heights high school, home of the
raiders, just east of cleveland, ohio. he says, i want to get this done by the end of this year. i want it done by the fall. he expects votes in the finance committee, the senate and the senate to continue moving forward, but there is no guarantee because the senate has been struggling behind closed doors for weeks. republicans are expected to throw up roadblocks if they do come up with a product. a lot of hurdles left to go. i think any way you slice it that this delay here does not portend well for this legislation and the president's push to get it passed. >> thank you very much, mike. david, what is to be made of the republicans still saying they're not being included in the conversation? >> i think that's just politics. what they want is largely is same thing we're doing right now. they want to slow down everything the democrats are
doing. they're saying are there any provisions we can put in that will attract a couple of senate republicans. you look at the bully pulpit the president's trying to use to sell this, but the senate's not coopera cooperating. >> all right. up next, mark sanford racking up some frequent flier miles these days. >> that's right. as he kicks off his vacation, we'll look at how often he's actually been on the job. plus, secrets of the bush white house. the president's trouble with dick cheney during their final years together. and a u.s. air strike reportedly killed osama bin laden's son. is the father far behind? you're watching msnbc. select fabrics on all frames you choose the fabric we custom make it
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welcome back, everyone. embattled south carolina governor mark sanford is off on a two-week european vacation. >> the latest in a string of highly publicized get aways. this comes just days after he returned from a trip with his wife to repair his marriage. it was just last month, the republican governor mysteriously disappeared. sanford said he considered canceling the trip which was planned before his affair. he said he decided not to cancel because his children raised money selling lemonade. >> the boys did lemonade stands and racked in hundreds of dollars, which i don't quite
understand. i thought about pulling the plug because obviously critics will criticize, but i think in terms of the healing process that needs to take place in the state, i've got to get things right in the family and this is part of that. >> turns out, governor sanford has been spending a lot of time out of the office. since the beginning of the year, he's had 53 days with no official work. for every vacation day he's taken, sanford's worked just three days and since going to argentina last month, he's worked just 10 out of 25 days. john joins us over the phone, he's a staff writer for the state newspapers. there have been a lot of recommendations, that he spend more time with his family. are people now saying this backs that up? >> yeah, i mean, you had that question at first when the
scandal first broke and since then, the folks who were criticizing him before that have backed down, but the general public hasn't at all. what you're seeing now is folk saying i'm a state government -- >> i wonder if you can clarify about the kids raising money. they're selling lemonade, maybe the governor should have said hey, i put the family through a lot. you kids hold on to your money, i'll take care of everything on this trip. >> that's not the sanford way. he's made this point throughout his career, that his father, who was fairly wealthy, comes from a wealthy family, made his family and he and his brothers to work as if they weren't wealthy. i was just looking up a quote
family together, but with his job as governor, what is driving him? the inability to step down, his ego, the desire to do better as he goes off on another vacation? >> we don't know for sure, who's advising him to do that, who's telling him to stay in. it's fairly certain though that he is going to hold on to office. he's not going to resign on his own barring other information coming out. he mentioned yesterday that he, actually on tuesday that he wants to get back to work and then yesterday as he was telling us about his vacation, he mentione about all the wrong things with government and here he is on a vacation with all these people out of work. state workers can only take up to 30 days. he's taken 50 plus just this year alone. this is incredible. >> incredibly tone deaf, which maybe shouldn't be a surprise. next, will they never learn news about how wall street
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one of the worst, morgan stanley. just yesterday, it reported being in the red by a staggering $1.26 billion in the second quarter of this year. >> despite this, it's still managed to set aside nearly $4 billion for bonuses and last night, president obama said wall street needs the change. >> i think is the kind of change in behavior and practices on wall street that would ensure that we don't find ourselves in a fix again where we've got to bail out these folks while they're taking huge risks and taking huge bonuses. i'd like to think that people would feel a little remorse and feel a little embarrassed and not get multi-million dollar bonuses. >> taxpayers would like that, too. three of the top six banks have
returned their bailout money, but are still benefit frs a host of other programs. a house panel will vote on a bill to increase oversight of wall street pay. >> it's unclear how far law make rs are really willing to go to crack down on wall street. tamron, even though you look at morgan stanley and the rest who are making this money, their risk is guaranteed by the fdic. it's crazy. what we know about the u.s. air strike that apparently killed one of osama bin laden's sons. does it mean we're any closer to getting father? >> plus, behind the scenes of the bush-cheney relationship. their falling out, i shouldn't say falling out. the final years, i should say, that they spent together in the white house. this is msnbc, the place for politics. ( birds chirping )
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stocks are near their session highs. the dow jones industrial average at its highest level above 9,000 for the first time since january. the dow, is s&p up 23 points. nasdaq up almost 45 points. the rally pushed oil prices to their highest in nearly three weeks. the rally itself driven by strong corporate earnings and housing numbers. there was a rise last week in people seeking unemployment benefits. claims rose to 554,000. and the ceo is stepping
down, leaving the luxury sports car company after 16 years. the move expecting to make it easier for porto merge with vol. welcome back. i'm davd schuster. >> i'm tamron hall. reports that osama bin laden's son was killed in an air strike this year. officials believe the 27-year-old was not the target, but was killed when the u.s. fired a missile at an al-qaeda target in western pakistan. saad bin laden had reportedly been under house arrest since 2001 and made his way to pakistan last year. he was one of osama bin laden's 17 children. in the bigger picture,
tamron, if the story is true, what does it mean in the u.s. fight against terrorism? are u.s. troops closer to capturing or killing osama bin laden eight years later? other bin laden children involved in terrorist activities in the united states. bob, what is the significance of all this? >> i think it's more personal for bin laden. he's been known to be close to his sons, particularly those who followed him into al-qaeda. saad is one who was believed to have had part in an attack in 2002 on a synagogue in which 17 were killed. but after he got to iran, where he was held either under house arrest or in prison, he didn't do anything. then suddenly for some reason, he comes back to pakistan. there is no belief that he
reunited with his father. it is that he was operating inside pakistan and was in the right place at the right time, according to u.s. officials. >> where does he stand as far as osama bin laden, are we any closer to having any idea where he might be? >> in talks to people over the last several months, i've been told they don't have a clue. that was a direct quote from someone. they have a better idea of where -- is, three unsuccessful attempts at killing him, but with osama bin laden, they really do not know where he is. this is probably not going to have any impact on that. >> thank you so much. so frustrating. great reporting by bob, but still frustrating. >> thank you. an explosive cover story in
"time" magazine. >> it depicts a battle between bush and cheney. according to one source familiar with the dispete, quote, cheney really got in the president's face. he just wouldn't give it up. thank you for joining us. you know, here we are trying to visualize this encounter. give us more details, was it a -- that indicates there was hostility there. >> it was incredibly intense, particularly the last week to week and a half. it was kind of a simmering fight for about six to eight weeks. the last week was very intense. bush held a special session in the oval office for cheney to argue his case. bush's white house council
presented a counterargument. political advisers weighed in. bush retreated from the meeting to make his decision. informed cheney and he refused to accept the decision. over the final weekend before inauguration, libby himself made a plea to white house lawyers and on the day before inauguration, bush again told cheney he wouldn't pardon libby. >> i'm curious overall, do these men have respect for each other during those final days in office? >> there was an effort on all sides, between the two men and among the top staffers, to try and preserve the relationship. by all accounts, that was successful. they're friends now and have respect for each other and remained respectful of each
other then. >> one part of the story, the president's passing boxes while sharing a cigar. quote, if the presidential staff were polled, the result would be 100-1 against the pardon, bush joked. then turned to sharpe, what's the bottom line here. did this guy lie or not? the lawyer replied, affirmati affirmatively. bush indicated he had already come to that conclusion, too. okay, bush said. 100-1 against the vice president's decision. in other words, most of the white house did seem to agree, scooter libby lied. >> that's a fascinating part of the story. by convicting libby of lying, what the jury did was show bush
turned out in the end, he was involved. the fact he lied and the fact the jury confirmed that he lied, ended up saying something about the relationship between libby and the president and the vice president and president. >> thank you so much. it's fascinating and clearly appears that cheney was willing to align himself with scooter libby at the expense of george bush. >> always the suspicion that what was driving dick cheney, because libby lied, cheney
>> last night, the president took credit for stabilizing the housing and financial markets. >> as a result of a actions we took this those first weeks, we've been able to pull our economy back from the brinks. we took steps to stabilize our financial institutions and housing market. >> after reading an advanced copy of the remarks, john boehner fired back. >> we've rescued the economy. now, i'm sure that the 9.5% unemployment rates in our country and from most economic experts on its way up, don't believe that we've rescued the economy. >> so which side has the story
straight? j.p., let's start with you. i don't think that boehner has it correct. aren't they saying we've kept the economy from imploeding? >> if you diffuse a bomb prior to it going off, haven't you saved a bus full of school children? >> not if other bombs are going off. >> but you've started the process. they're trying to take credit when it's not clear we've gotten to that point yet. the question is though whether the economy is fixed by the president or the american people. i think that ultimately, we're going to figure out it's what the american people do, not what the president does. it's a question of whether or not the president makes it easier for these people to go about their business. makes it easier to employ people, go about their lives.
>> as far as the political risk, isn't it a little risky for the president to essentially take, try to brag about anything, even if it is true, that yes, he kept the economy from completely dissent grate iing -- >> people do react to the fact that the president is saying there's better days ahead. i think one of the important things if you look back at the american recovery and reinvestment act, one thing that president obama made clear was that it was going to occur over a two-year horizon. these republicans seem to have forgotten we haven't doled out the money yet. i think they're the ones jumping out looking for political benefit and trying to claim, you
know, trying to hope for president obama's failure. that's the bottom line here. >> i'm curious. do you believe the republicans are picking up some traction with this line about the obama administration is trying to somehow take credit for, as you said, not having the bus blow up, to keep that awful analogy going there. >> do i think they're getting traction? no. they're probably raising people's hackles a bit. this claim that rahm emanuel and barack obama have prevented the economy from getting worse. i can tell you one thing -- >> weren't the banks in danger of a run on the banks? in december and january, people thought the dow would drop another 3,000 points. there hasn't been the great depression, so by that narrow standard, the president, they've prevented that. another
question. would you be willing to allow obama to share that credit with president bush for having initiated the bailout process? >> sure. >> that wasn't an argument that anyone is trying to make, that's not what boehner said, that there should be shared credit. >> absolutely. and i understand your point, but the real problem here in all of this talk is that government gets in the way rather than helps, and certainly obama's optimism has been good, but he's been talking about these things as though if we do not do what he wants to do, then everything is going to get much worse. we're seeing that right now with health care and that's problematic. >> one thing i want to recall, david makes a really great point about how republicans were warning of the market failure. remember back in october, november, december, january of this year when karl rove and so many republicans pundits were going on tv and saying the market is failing because of president obama? that the market was reacting because president obama was now
in office? like what happened to that? have their memories just completely been forgotten here? >> i think that's a brilliant strawman you made up. i can't remember anyone saying that. >> come on. >> maybe i misunderstood. frankly, i can't remember that. >> we'll remind you. >> neither you or anyone in the conservative movement. >> i can't believe j.p. doesn't remember that. people were tracking the stock market with how many days obama had been in office and comparing the two. in fact, when he would speak there was a line of conversation literally watching the number as he would give a speech on the economy related to the dow. >> something called selective amnesia maybe. >> we've diagnosed you, j.p. just ahead, today's "crossing the line," did a small businessman get kicked out of a mall because he took on president obama in a series of bumper stickers? and in our next hour, arnold schwarzenegger explains what the
heck he was doing with a huge knife in that twitter video he released. apparently had something to do with not wanting to be seen as el stiffo as he used to call himself. we'll explain, or try. here on msnbc. >> the place for politics. fre! tell your friends, tell your dad, tell your mom! never mind, they've been singing our songs since we first showed up with our pirate hats on! if you're not into fake sword fights pointy slippers and green wool tights take a tip from a knight who knows free credit report dot com, let's go! vo: offer applies with enrollment in triple advantage.
welcome back. in today's "crossing the line" conservative outrage all over a bumper sticker. so the owner of free market warrior, that's a kiosk at a mall in concord, north carolina, thinks he's getting a raw deal. his name is lawrence spivek. he sells bumper stickers that he calls biting, but he says they're not over the line. one reads, work harder, obama needs the money.
another reads al qaeda favorite says 9/11/01 and 11/4/08, being when president obama was elected. some people did not appreciate the message spivek wanted to spread via bumper stickers. one person complained to a letter that the messages were racist and bigoted. management told spivek the items sold are not neutral enough to be in the mall. spivek said nobody is selling anything from a conservative perspective. plenty of people are selling things with a liberal perspective, with a pro-obama perspective, and given we're in america and not north korea, we probably should have some stuff on the other side. that's what he had to say. the mall's owner, simons property group, would not comment on the story citing policy. spivack says he's careful to sell things that are not personally attacking a
politician and wants a fair exchange of ideas. did the mall cross his line? why bump him for the bumper sticker? he wants the other side of the debate. you tell me. or is it crossing the line for someone to drive their car with a bumper sticker? it is almost 4:00 in the east coast. we're just getting started. just ahead, fact checking the president and the republicans when it comes to health care. does reality match the rhetoric? and news from the michael jackson investigation. police are now looking at security breaches involving the singer's death certificate. plus, more on that bizarre corruption sweep in new jersey. mayors, lawmakers, and rabbis, all busted in the heart of sopranos territory.
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this hour on msnbc, president obama hits the road to sell his health care reform. >> hello, everybody. >> but on both sides of the aisle -- >> you haven't seen me out there blaming the republicans. >> the misleading statements are now rampant. >> health care experts estimate that number could be as high as 114 million people. plus, more proof of public corruption in new jersey. two dozen public officials under arrest. reports that their schemes even had a connection to black market organ transplants. later, the arrest of harvard scholar henry louis gates. >> the cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. >> why aren't conservative groups joining the outrage.